IMAGINE PEACE

Yoko Ono - 'I still talk to John'
by Chrissey Iley


More than 27 years after she lost the love of her life, the artist and performer talks about living without John, coping with being a hate figure and how she is still fighting to Give Peace A Chance.

From outside, the Dakota Building is a gothic chill on the Manhattan landscape. Inside Yoko Ono's apartment, everything is still. The carpet is thick and creamy white, and everyone must take off their shoes before entering. I am ushered into the famous white room, where John Lennon's white piano sits in the window. On it are dozens of framed photographs of John, of John and Yoko, and of Sean. These are pictures every one of us has seen countless times in newspapers and magazines, and on album covers.
Everything is so quiet - it's like a church. And it does feel somehow sacred. Ono arrives silently. She's wearing a navy tracksuit and round glasses with a pale-blue tint. Her hair is spiky and her skin flawless. She looks just like she does in the photographs. You might know she is 74, but when you see her in the flesh she could be any age.

I tell her how much I like one of the paintings that adorn her walls, of some shoes with golden hair falling over them. "Yes, Magritte was quite good," she says, as if we've all got one at home.

We go into the kitchen to talk over coffee. At first she seems distracted, taking phone calls, organising a trip to Brazil, where a massive Yoko Ono art retrospective and a concert are due to be held. She is just back from Iceland, where, on the anniversary of John Lennon's birthday, she created the Imagine Peace Tower - possibly because peace was always their joint idea. Peace doesn't just keep the world alive: it keeps John and Yoko alive.

She studies me closely, like an artist sizing up the proportions of a still-life. Suddenly she says: "I love the way you've got one tooth sticking out. That's beautiful." I tell her it's the result of my childhood fear of the dentist and my determination never to wear a brace. It's an odd observation, but then she continues staring at me. "Really," she says eventually, "you wouldn't be attractive at all without it."

Right from the start, you realise that Ono is a one-off. She sees the world in a different way from everyone else. She tells me I would have loved the Peace Tower, which she unveiled on Videy island, near Reykjavik. The tower is a beam of light radiating skywards from a wishing well. She says she was proud of the speech she wrote, which was all about hope. One passage says: "The light is the light of wisdom, healing and empowerment. Even in the moments of confusion, fear and the darkness of your soul, hold the light in your heart, and you will know that you are not alone, that we are all together in seeing the light of peace..."

Ono often comes across as mystical and wise, but also she can be hugely sensible. She was worried about the Iceland unveiling because it had been raining so hard. "I thought everyone was going to slide into the mud. It had been raining for several days, but when I arrived it was beautiful and on the night there was misty rain, which was perfect. If that air had been too clean, there'd be nothing to hold on to, so it was a kind of magic. I really felt it was a message to the universe."

She believes in the universe taking care of things. I tell her that her skin is fantastic: there are no criss-cross lines and no saggy bits. It's the same Ono who peered out from the cover of The Ballad of John and Yoko. "I don't know about that," she says. "It used to be good but I've been having only four or five hours of sleep lately and I don't think I'm in very good condition. But I could be. All of us can become younger."

What exactly does she mean - metaphorically or physically? "Metaphorically as well, but I meant physically, because these days, if we want to be healthy, we all know what to eat. We all know what to do. I don't eat meat, not even fish much. Just vegetables, carbohydrates, very light on your body, easy to digest. Sportsmen in the old days used to train for the Olympics and just have spaghetti."

When she was a child, Ono was sent to a music school in Tokyo for super-toddlers. Her father, who had been forced to give up his career as a pianist and become a banker - as stipulated in his father's will - wanted her to be a concert pianist. She wanted to be a composer. They compromised and agreed that she would be an opera singer, which helped her to become a musical maverick, a performance artist. She met Lennon in 1966 at one of her conceptual art shows, where he had to hammer in an imaginary nail. "In a way, both John and I ruined our careers by getting together, although we weren't aware of it at the time," she once said. She led him in to experimental music and he led her further into him.

During her life as a Beatles wife, she was reviled by press and public alike, and her music and art were not taken seriously. But a younger generation listens without prejudice, and her last album Yes, I'm a Witch, which came out earlier this year, received excellent reviews. So, she's going to Brazil to do a big concert. She seems rather bewildered by the plaudits. "It is amazing. I was not a very popular figure and I got used to that. Whether I'm popular or unpopular, what I do is the same and I just kept on doing it."

Indeed, there seems to be a new wave of Ono reverence. When I met the film director John Waters, creator of Hairspray among other films, he said the best thing about being single was that when he went to one of Elton John's parties "all the other guests were in boring couples" and he got "the best seat in the house - next to Yoko Ono". She giggles when I tell her this. "Mmm, yes. There were a few interesting bachelors around that table." Is that a euphemism for gay? "I never question whether people are gay or not," she says ambiguously.

She is putting her wisdom in a book which, she says, is filled with "recipes for life". But it's only being published in Japan. "I did one a while ago for children, and this one is for grown-ups. It's a how-to-deal-with-life kind of book." I imagine she'd be very good at relationship problems, I tell her. "For some reason I am. I'm into healing. Sometimes things just come into my head and I write them down." Has she any psychic powers? "Well, I think so," she says. "I remember once, in London in the 1960s, a man I didn't know very well asked me to predict his future. I said, 'The next five years are going to be very hard for you," and then I forgot all about it. Years later, I bumped into him again and he told me I'd been right. 'What about my next five years?' he asked. And I said, 'Oh, it's going to be so very good.' But what did I know? I only told him that because I thought he would make it good. I never wanted to take responsibility for predicting bad things - if they think the future is going to be bad, they might deliberately make it bad."

Does she believe that if you worry about something, you almost make it happen? "Yes, I do. I'm always trying to make things happen in the right way. John once went to see a famous psychic who told him he was only going to be here for another five years. John was very upset. He had all this guy's books and he threw them in the bin. Everything was going really well for John and me at that time. We never thought it would end. Maybe we should have said we wanted this to continue forever."

She stops, a little breathless, and then draws a parallel between her life with Lennon, being told he was going to die, and Sleeping Beauty. "In that fairytale, an old psychic told the king, 'Your daughter is going to die. Someone will prick her with a needle.' So he decided that no one in the kingdom should have a needle. But, of course, when the princess was older she went into the tower and there was a witch who was weaving and she pricked her finger. So even though the king had outlawed needles, they slipped in somehow. We were living our lives being very careful and he slipped in with his bullets."

Lennon still seems very much present in her life. She is surrounded by his pictures, his words, his music. She said she felt him with her in Iceland. "At one point he was right there next to me. He does come in and out, you know - he doesn't always stick to me."

The first time she thought she saw him after he died was "one day when I was half-asleep. I kept being attracted by something at the window. Suddenly I thought, 'Oh, it's John!' and he turned round and said, 'Come on, we've got to go.' And I said, 'I can't come with you now because I have Sean and so much to take care of.' He said, 'Oh yes, I forgot,' and just turned round. And I said, 'Later, not now.' And he said, 'Okay.' It was amazing. Like Cathy in Wuthering Heights, scratching at the window to get to Heathcliff. I do see him once in a while."

Only once in a while? "Okay, a lot of times. I never used to believe in any of that stuff. I was a logical person. But since John's passing, I believe there's something going on."

 


photo: Bob Gruen

Did she know the first moment she met him that he was going to be the love of her life? "Not at all. I just thought he was rather attractive," she giggles. "We were both rather attracted to each other." And then they became crazy for each other? "Yes, but it wasn't like two teenagers. We tried not to go there because we had our lives, you know."

Indeed, Lennon was still married to Cynthia and Ono had already been married twice. She'd also been placed in a psychiatric hospital after a suicide attempt. She was "really insecure" at that time. Her second husband (the first was a Japanese composer) was the American jazz musician Anthony Cox, with whom she had a daughter, Kyoko. When they split, Cox refused to let her see her daughter.

The relationship with Lennon was never going to be easy. Did it become harder to stop the more they tried to suppress it? "Yes," she nods, dreamily.

What I never understood about their relationship, I tell her, was that after everything they did together - their famous Bed-In of 1969, the end of The Beatles and the beginning of John and Yoko, working together, living together, fighting the world together - in 1973 Lennon took up with their secretary, May Pang. What happened there?

"I just felt I needed some space. I would not have survived as a person otherwise. Also, with hindsight, I can see that it was good for John that I gave him that freedom. We all need some fun in life, you know. From the moment John announced that he was in love with me, we were together all the time. The more people tried to break us up, the closer we got to each other."

Maybe she felt they'd become too close, or that they'd been driven together for all the wrong reasons. The world hated their closeness. "We needed a breather. I didn't know if it would end completely. It was a gamble. I took a chance. At the time, in any case, I really felt I'd had enough of it.

"A psychic I saw at the time told me I was going to meet 'this guy who looks exactly like your husband, who's also very famous, also a musician, he's going to be very kind and gentle'. John was kind and gentle, but there was another side to him too, of course. I told my friend afterwards and she started laughing. 'How can there be a guy who's as famous as John and very much like John?' she said. 'You would know him if he existed, right?' Soon afterwards, I understood - it was John. John was coming back. Amazing, isn't it?"

When they got back together she very quickly became pregnant. Did that play a part in them staying together? "Actually, I didn't want John to stay with me just because I was pregnant. I wanted to leave it up to him. It wasn't that I wanted to have an abortion - far from it. I just wanted to give him the choice of whether to be with me or not. You don't want some repressed and angry guy with you - you want a life that's beautiful, not always to be struggling and making an effort for a guy who doesn't feel free. Relationships are difficult enough. I just didn't want to continue the relationship unless it was great."

Her relationship with Lennon exists now only on a spiritual level. Who knows what would have happened if he'd still been here. Is she in touch with any of her previous husbands? "No, I don't see them, I'm afraid. I'm the kind of person who never looks back. I don't have any bad feelings about either of them, though. They were both good people."

But what about Cox when he wouldn't let her see her daughter? "Well, I have a very good relationship with her now. Before, it was hard. Tony decided he wanted to hurt me because I'd left him for John. Maybe he didn't think it was good for his daughter to be with us - and maybe he was right, you know, because we were going through an incredibly difficult time politically and all that."

I ask if her political activism has petered out, if she's still as radical or if she has mellowed. "I haven't mellowed at all," she replies indignantly. "Please mention in your article that people should log on to imaginepeace.com." (The website has a video of Ono wearing exactly the same outfit she wore during our interview, telling people to make postcards, make T-shirts, put peace signs in their window.)

She and her son Sean are very close. "He's busy with his music. It's not catchy but it's very original."

Who does she think he is more like, her or his father? "He is a real mixture. He has the outgoing, forward side of John and a quiet, repressed side that's me." She laughs. Does she really think she's repressed? "I think that I was and I'm just starting to unfold myself, in a way. There are lots of things that I wouldn't speak up about. I speak up for world peace out of necessity. But there are things I won't talk about because I feel the children of the people in question might be upset. I just don't want to hurt them." That's being discreet, not repressed, I suggest. "Okay, then, change the word."

I assume she means the children of the members of The Beatles, but I don't ask. She is quiet, pondering. "But part of me thinks I should be coming out with it," she says eventually. "Maybe it's fair that people should know about it. I don't know. I think perhaps it was good that I just kept going without ever responding to the people who said nasty things about me or made up rumours."

Maybe repression should be part of her genetic heritage. Both her parents gave up what they loved in order to conform (her mother swapped painting for the life of a dutiful wife). "I had to escape from all that pressure, in order to survive," she says. "I probably went too far the other way."

In fact, she is one of the least repressed people I have ever met. "That was John," she laughs. Maybe he needed to be calmed down and she needed to be opened up, I suggest. "You're right. We were a match. His power was very yang and mine was very yin.

"Did you see that film The Pianist?" she goes on. "What struck me is, whatever is going on in the world, if you have your art, half of you is in there, in that art. John was always thinking of his music and that helped him survive. If you have your art, they really cannot kill you."

She has clearly thought deeply about death. She once said that she felt she would be able to choose when to die. Perhaps this is an extreme reaction to seeing her husband's life snatched away in front of her. "When I said that one day we'll be able to choose when we die, I meant everybody. Life is going to be longer as we learn how to be healthier and we might just one day in the future decide that after 200 years we've had enough. I wasn't meaning that I personally will be able to choose when to die.

"I don't think John's life is finished," she goes on. "When you listen to his music he's still there, especially at Christmas-time because it's so close to the anniversary of his death. It feels like he's omnipresent. You know how we think of God as the only one who is? So, in a way I don't think of that moment as the end of his life."

If she doesn't think he's dead, will she ever be able to move on and fall in love again? She did have a relationship with Sam Havadtoy, a Hungarian antiques dealer, which ended in 2001, but nothing since. "When it comes to the time that I might fall in love, I'll think about it then. Right now, I have a good situation. For me, being alone is not lonely, you know."